I've just corrected my post, but the observations are still simple and valid. Cheers to all. By the way, I've just bought a Velo.
Counter Steering: Does Anybody Have An Explanation? - Demystification Required
- Thread starter Jez Nemeth
- Start date
Wow -Which one?!!
The easiest way to visualize what is going on is to take a small broom, place the top of the handle in your palm and balance the broom. After you have danced around for a while trying to keep the handle underneath the wider end of the broom you may see a pattern. When the straw part of the broom is balancing, if you move the handle to your left, the broom falls to the right, and vice versa.
If you think of the palm of your hand as the front tire contact point on the pavement, when you move that contact point to the left the bike goes to the right. There are all sorts of other things going on, but essentially, when you are turning the handlebars you are putting the tire contact patch in a place where it will lean the bike left, or right or hold it straight.
The faster you ride the bike the more sensitive it becomes to the tire contact patch movement. If you are on a dirt bike going slowly we all have seen the very quick left and right turning of the fork that is necessary to stay balanced at a low forward speed. At slow speeds, you have to overcorrect continually to stay balanced and maintain the line you wish to take. This is what you are doing with the broom, mostly.
David
Green Venom from Tanks Classics, U.K.
I learn't about gyroscopic precession about 55 years ago at school but can't remember all the science unfortunately.
I think I'm right in saying that even if the front wheel is off the ground, counter steering will still work, it does not need the contact point to move to lean the bike. It is the mass of the gyroscope (front wheel) which is the important part.
Now taking cover!
I think I'm right in saying that even if the front wheel is off the ground, counter steering will still work, it does not need the contact point to move to lean the bike. It is the mass of the gyroscope (front wheel) which is the important part.
Now taking cover!
No, at very low speed no gyroscopic effects there. It is just shifting weights of body and bike for having the suitable lean into bends . Try very tight turn arounds on your street with a push bike, you do a good lean into the cornering to turn around and gyroscopic effect on the very light bike wheel is non-existent . For producing the lean you push the handle bar for "counter steering" just to position the bike to the opposite side of your body of the next bend so your body can effect the suitable lean for the upcoming bend.
Vic
Vic
The main thing is the bike has to lean before it turns otherwise the bike will tip over. I often ride with a passenger and I find that it is best to keep still on the bike and steer with the bars only, except for emergencies. When you ride that way countersteering is the only way to lean the bike. A pedal bike is the same. It is easy to practice this and I think it is very usefull to understand it. When I hear some people say a corner is dangerous because they couldn't get the bike to lean, I know they don't understand. When a sppedway rider is crossed up sideways that is a different thing.
Post 66 by Bill is quite right. I remember seeing ( only on TV sadly) the superbike racing at Laguna Seca, the fast boys were turning into the corkscrew with so much power on the bars the front of the 'bike would lift as the gyroscopic force acted on the wheel/forks/frame. ( no it was'nt as they went over the hill ).
Good job those bars were'nt brazed together by me !
You read it right - the force is acting on the frame, that's what makes the bike turn in.
Now who's taking cover !
Good job those bars were'nt brazed together by me !
You read it right - the force is acting on the frame, that's what makes the bike turn in.
Now who's taking cover !
I’m sure the only way a motorcycle or bicycle steers is by counter steering. Many people don’t realize they are doing it but they are.
Example: the bike is going straight (actually micro-counter steering) you want to go Right you push on the right bar or pull on the left. When this happens the front wheel is steered out from under the center of the bike, this causes the bike to fall to the right. The caster (Trail) of the fork geometry steers the wheel back under the center or weight of the motorcycle. This balances constantly to keep the motorcycle balanced and not falling over. At speed the the weight of the spinning front wheel (gyroscopic motion) comes into play but the basic principle (spoke of in the beginning) is still how it works.
The harder you push or pull the bars the more it steers out the faster the bike turns.
Example: the bike is going straight (actually micro-counter steering) you want to go Right you push on the right bar or pull on the left. When this happens the front wheel is steered out from under the center of the bike, this causes the bike to fall to the right. The caster (Trail) of the fork geometry steers the wheel back under the center or weight of the motorcycle. This balances constantly to keep the motorcycle balanced and not falling over. At speed the the weight of the spinning front wheel (gyroscopic motion) comes into play but the basic principle (spoke of in the beginning) is still how it works.
The harder you push or pull the bars the more it steers out the faster the bike turns.
As Doug points out, there are many many factors involved in steering a bike, I've only been referring to higher speeds when obvious force is required on the bars, not the barely noticeable "intuitive" rider skills at sensible speeds.
Chassis set up is another world away, but a well set up chassis with lightweight wheels and tyres requires much less effort to steer it, even at higher speeds.
A mag-alloy wheel, carbon discs and a tubeless race tyre on my B twin ? Yuck !
Chassis set up is another world away, but a well set up chassis with lightweight wheels and tyres requires much less effort to steer it, even at higher speeds.
A mag-alloy wheel, carbon discs and a tubeless race tyre on my B twin ? Yuck !