Counter Steering: Does Anybody Have An Explanation? - Demystification Required

[Jez Nemeth]

funny, good to have a bit of levity, not seen that sketch in 30+ years, Flylow sir, I do get what you mean, was just a perfect opportunity to see it again -please forgive me ...but I digress...

This is really important stuff and I absolutely agree essential to master for all obvious reasons at a range of speeds -

Q'? At extreme 2 wheeled speeds -say, streamliner record attempt speeds, would it become so difficult to counter steer that a lean is the only effective form of slight maneuver, and even higher speeds, does the steering eventually return to slight positive steering due to length, weight distribution, surface and speed factors ?

 

[Jim Bush]

On long turns, I have found that a slight push at turn entry, and hold it in that position through the turn, then on exit, a controlled gradual push by the other hand brings the bike back and gives a very smooth ride. Learn the mechanical balance process...

Counter steering allows you to precisely place the bike where you want it by simple mechanics (physics, laws of gyroscopes) and control the line.

 

[Jez Nemeth]

still puzzled by J.B's take -I believe it, gyroscopic effect being what it is - just trying to understand that effect a bit more clearly...possibly explains why I always found it really difficult to get my knee down on sportier bikes, but then I've always counter steered...balance/weight distribution being as important clearly.

 

[Bogage]

If you put handles on either side of a wheel and spin it you will feel the forces. It is the easiest way to actually 'feel' the physics. I coach Motorcycle Safety and use a wheel with handles that protrude from the actual axle. The reality is, don't overthink it. You can either 'press' in the direction you are turning or slightly 'pull' in the opposite direction of the turn. Pulling would represent 'counter' steering. Pressing is a way to simplify it that actually makes it confusing as pressing is not 'counter' to the direction you are steering. Just do it! Look ahead, look through the turn.

Use the force!

 

[Magnetoman]

I think some of the posts reflect a misunderstanding. Counter-steering isn't a secret technique you learn in order to be able to turn better than someone who doesn't know the secret. Every time you ever turned a motorcycle at anything over a few mph, you did so by counter-steering, whether or not you were conscious of what you were doing. It's not a choice, it's a law of physics.

If you were super-strong, sitting upright on your motorcycle, and were physically able to turn the handlebars to the left to attempt a sharp left-hand turn (i.e. rapidly pull the left end of the handlebars toward you while pushing the right end away), you would be thrown off the bike to the right. The fact that hasn't happened to you is because you've unconsciously been counter-steering ever since your first ride on a motorcycle.

 

[Bogage]

As I said, don’t overthink it. I think this began as a question about why counter steering is… physics, as you echoed. Often folks do things without understanding how it actually works. Telling someone that they do it already doesn’t help them understand why it works… I would say that the question has been answered

 

[fogrider]

As Magneto man infers, steering at sensible speeds is intuitive, probably picked up way back on push bikes. The real value of counter steering is to get you out of trouble when you've gone into a bend too fast, misread how tight it is and are about to visit the scenery !!
How many times have I heard ( after someone has had an off ) - " the bike would'nt go round that bend ".
It would, they did'nt know how.
Rings a bell, Bogage ?

 

[Magnetoman]

Telling someone that they do it already doesn’t help them understand why it works.

I agree completely. However, my experience is that with many people it helps understanding to be explicitly told that that the concept that has just been explained is what they've always done. Otherwise, for some reason, the explanation can be filed away in their brain in a different location.

 

[Magnetoman]

How many times have I heard ( after someone has had an off ) - " the bike would'nt go round that bend ".

I believe that often is for a different reason. Facing a tight curve with a too-fast speed, I think many people fear leaning further and having their rear tire slide out from under them. So, instead of risking a crash that way, they guarantee a crash by going off the road instead.

Had I never taken a road racing course I never would have found how much further a bike can be leaned over (i.e. how much tighter of a curve it could navigate) than I otherwise would have thought. I remember going through a curve during my first road-racing course, leaned over further and traveling faster through that curve than any human ever had before, when I was passed on the inside by an instructor steering with one hand and looking back toward me to give hand signals with his other hand.

 

[Bogage]

Usually,, it won't go round the bend because they blinked and looked into the corner instead of through it. Hence they looked into it and went into it. Look where you want to go, first and foremost. Instinctually, I believe that we often target fixate because we are getting a lot more info than our brains are normally able to process. We need to train ourselves to focus and remain calm. The fear causes a lot of involuntary responses. Yes Magnetoman, I believe you are correct about getting an understanding that you have already done something successfully, while not even understanding how it works. At some point you need to let your confidence outweigh the inherent fear that will always exist. Time, experience and understanding is a good start. I would be surprised if a person posting on this site had not yet comprehended the reality that is counter steering. Butt I am sure they probably know they can do it, but just don't know why it works. Regardless, no bad questions, except the ones that aren't asked...