FF: Forks M
- Thread starter Bazlerker
- Start date
Bob,
All two-wheel vehicles are possible culprits for wobbles. The hydraulic damper and new steering stem combination have performed remarkably. well on Vincents. I think this combination is a fantastic insurance policy against bad handling.
I think most Vincent owners are here to help each other enjoy their Vincents, but there is a limit. If you feel it is time to move on, then you should move on happily. If plan A doesn't work, then think about plan B. When I was thrown to the track during a wobble I promised myself that I would not get on the bike again if I could not find the cause. It took me a few years, but I rode in competition for many years after that fall and never experienced a wobble again.
David
All two-wheel vehicles are possible culprits for wobbles. The hydraulic damper and new steering stem combination have performed remarkably. well on Vincents. I think this combination is a fantastic insurance policy against bad handling.
I think most Vincent owners are here to help each other enjoy their Vincents, but there is a limit. If you feel it is time to move on, then you should move on happily. If plan A doesn't work, then think about plan B. When I was thrown to the track during a wobble I promised myself that I would not get on the bike again if I could not find the cause. It took me a few years, but I rode in competition for many years after that fall and never experienced a wobble again.
David
Morning Bob, I know how you feel,
It's a matter of how much you enjoy riding ?,
I have only gone for just an Hydraulic Damper, It made a Huge difference,
A lot of later bikes need them , But the makers just don't bother,
I think All the Racers in I.O.M. use them ?.
A few times in my life, I have thought about giving it up,
A very bad road crash, In 1970, Not my or my bikes fault,
And a few T/Slappers, One of which threw me over the top,
But there is a Risk in everything.
You can get hurt driving a car or standing at a Bus Stop !.
So for me , I like riding Bikes, So be it !.
Good luck in what ever you want to do.
Cheers Bill.
It's a matter of how much you enjoy riding ?,
I have only gone for just an Hydraulic Damper, It made a Huge difference,
A lot of later bikes need them , But the makers just don't bother,
I think All the Racers in I.O.M. use them ?.
A few times in my life, I have thought about giving it up,
A very bad road crash, In 1970, Not my or my bikes fault,
And a few T/Slappers, One of which threw me over the top,
But there is a Risk in everything.
You can get hurt driving a car or standing at a Bus Stop !.
So for me , I like riding Bikes, So be it !.
Good luck in what ever you want to do.
Cheers Bill.
Phil Irving was supposed to have said something to the effect that there is a situation somewhere that might cause a tank slapper on a motorcycle.
Riders have the option of making changes to minimise the chance of this happening. Steering dampers and steering geometry changes would seem to make the likelihood of this happening on Vincent machines. I rode thousands of miles with just a standard Girdraulic fork geometry and friction steering damper without a tank slapper. Maybe I was just lucky but whatever, I have both a hydraulic steering damper and the modified steering head fitted now to eliminate or at least reduce the risk of steering-related problems.
There are few 100% guarantees in life but one for me is that I will definitely miss riding my motorcycles if\when I stop riding.
Riders have the option of making changes to minimise the chance of this happening. Steering dampers and steering geometry changes would seem to make the likelihood of this happening on Vincent machines. I rode thousands of miles with just a standard Girdraulic fork geometry and friction steering damper without a tank slapper. Maybe I was just lucky but whatever, I have both a hydraulic steering damper and the modified steering head fitted now to eliminate or at least reduce the risk of steering-related problems.
There are few 100% guarantees in life but one for me is that I will definitely miss riding my motorcycles if\when I stop riding.
With the latest batch of 14 being sent out now I have sold nearly 300 of the JE stems. DavidD has also sold several his own design. Of the ones I have supplied so far everyone who has them is impressed by the improvement in handling and comfort. BUT could I guarantee that a speed wobble could never occur? NO. The reason is that a few years ago, in this thread as far as I remember, someone showed a series of videos of modern bikes racing and developing speed wobbles. If state of the art modern bikes can do it then I do not believe anyone could guarantee that a speed wobble could never occur. Incidentally, two terms are used in this context, speed wobble and tank slapper. What I got into at Cadwell many years ago was a tank slapper. By that I mean the front end oscillated from side stop to side stop at about ten times a second. There was no way of even holding on the handlebars, never mind accelerating out of it. Speed wobbles, as far as I understand, are gentler affairs wherein the rider might be able to hang on but the bike itself weaves violently from side to side. It is still capable of throwing the rider off. The pictures of the modern bikes that I recall seemed to be more of the latter than the former.
Even before this last batch of modified steering heads has been fully distributed I have so much more interest that I have ordered another ten to be made. Please note that it is not just replacing the steering head. I provide the parts for the Greg Brillus modification of putting two ball races at each side of the lower link, rather than Oilite bushes, different front suspension springs and different front suspension dampers, AVO with longer lower eyebolts if they come from me. If one wants the best safety and comfort then I believe it is wise to go for the whole kit.
The steering damper for the JE kit was developed after an English racer on a twin was so impressed by the new handling that he raced without any form of steering damper. He eventually crashed and when I heard of this I designed the hydraulic steering damper kit specifically to fit the JE stems. One other person was so impressed by those that he asked could I design a similar system for the standard front end. I have done that and have sold several tens but for maximum benefit I think that the whole modification is preferable. And I do this for no profit so that is not a sales pitch.
Even before this last batch of modified steering heads has been fully distributed I have so much more interest that I have ordered another ten to be made. Please note that it is not just replacing the steering head. I provide the parts for the Greg Brillus modification of putting two ball races at each side of the lower link, rather than Oilite bushes, different front suspension springs and different front suspension dampers, AVO with longer lower eyebolts if they come from me. If one wants the best safety and comfort then I believe it is wise to go for the whole kit.
The steering damper for the JE kit was developed after an English racer on a twin was so impressed by the new handling that he raced without any form of steering damper. He eventually crashed and when I heard of this I designed the hydraulic steering damper kit specifically to fit the JE stems. One other person was so impressed by those that he asked could I design a similar system for the standard front end. I have done that and have sold several tens but for maximum benefit I think that the whole modification is preferable. And I do this for no profit so that is not a sales pitch.
Once, I had a '71 200 Dodge van with everything off of a 340 cu in engine on a 360 in. short block! That thing would eat 351 Cleveland Mustangs! Well, Dodge had a problem (and a recall) with the steering box breaking loose and that Damn thing would do speed wobbles until I figured it out! The point is .... Anything can wobble, with the right circumstances!
I think a BMW car in the 70 s had an Hydraulic steering Damper ?.
Just a note , I only use them with 2 or 3 clicks from weakest, On my Vincents
Or you will get a weave ??, Which if you have had a Big Slapper , Can be a bit unnerving
!,
Sometimes I think / Worry Too Much.
I also think Taper roller head bearings calm things down a bit,
There is very little friction in Balls ?,
I only fit Taper Bearings to the lower position,
Ron Kemp told me that's all you need because of the weight of the bike is on them.
Just a note , I only use them with 2 or 3 clicks from weakest, On my Vincents
Or you will get a weave ??, Which if you have had a Big Slapper , Can be a bit unnerving
!,Sometimes I think / Worry Too Much
.I also think Taper roller head bearings calm things down a bit,
There is very little friction in Balls ?,
I only fit Taper Bearings to the lower position,
Ron Kemp told me that's all you need because of the weight of the bike is on them.
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I cannot show how good the steering is with the modified steering stem other than to say I can ride mine confidently without thinking about every bump and pothole in front of me, I have even tried it hands off and it tracked beautifully (not recommended of course).
But I can show the improvement in suspension as I filmed a short ride a few years ago, this needs to be watched at least 3 times, once to see the fork movement, once to see the road conditions and once to watch how stable the bike is in relation to the background compared with the fork movement.
But I can show the improvement in suspension as I filmed a short ride a few years ago, this needs to be watched at least 3 times, once to see the fork movement, once to see the road conditions and once to watch how stable the bike is in relation to the background compared with the fork movement.
Here it is on the track
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FF: Forks - Cadwell Landsdowne video + Suspension Setup
Well we were down on power we still got a 1st in our class on Saturdays race but the silencers need to be revised, this is Sundays race the camera is positioned to examine the forks performance (Norman will no doubt be interested) I guess it needs harder springs but looks deceive it handles...
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