Misc: Charging Systems Battery Charging Help!

[pmcmanners]

Hello all,

I am a new member and posting on behalf of my neighbour who has just purchased his dream bike after many decades (Vincent 1953 Black Shadow).

We have noticed the amp meter on the headlight unit does not show positive amps when the bike is running/reving, it does however show negative amp draw when switching the headlight on. We decided to stick a multimeter on the battery to see if the alternator was charging the 6v battery........but nothing!

There are two wires going to the positive side of the battery. We assume one must be the supply to the electrical system and the other the in feed from the alternator. We think the alternator is the cylinder shaped module next to the battery with a plastic box (regulator?) attached to it.

Does anyone have any idea why it is not charging?
What to check and any readings we should be getting?

We did open the small plastic box on the alternator, but inside there was something we did not recognise - a cylindrical object with 2 wires on bolt posts and a wire soldered to the other end from the middle to the outside body -- what us this?

Sorry if these seem like noob questions, but we appreciate any help.

Can always take photos if that would help, but I'm sure you guys know these bikes back to front!!!!

 

[erik]

Which generator is mounted? The original Miller with original rectifier? Or a modern replacement? Or only an electronic rectifier? Erik

 

[pmcmanners]

Thanks Erik,

It's the original Miller - I assume the rectifying circuit must be built into the alternator/dynamo as the black box contains the regulator.

Hope this helps.
Paul

 

[timetraveller]

It sounds as though you still have the original Miller system and the cylindrical device in the regulator housing is the Miller version of a regulator. They were always trouble and were regularly replaced even sixty years ago. You have had a voltmeter on the battery. Is it six or twelve volts? If six then that also suggests it is the original Miller. If the new owner wants to keep it looking as near to original as possible then it is possible to replace the thing in the box with a modern electronic regulator or even something which will give him a 12 volt system but then he will have to change the battery, bulbs etc. There is a French produced alternator called an Alton which looks very similar to the original dynamo. produces 12 volts and is superior in every way to the original equipment. You would have to change the battery and bulbs but not the horn. The horn is probably where the second positive wire goes to. If neither of you is familiar with Vincent machinery then you really need to seek help from either the local section of the VOC or a professional Vincent mechanic. It is not a lot of work to change to an Alton but if neither of you is used to Vincents then you will be in for an interesting time.

 

[vibrac]

Go for the Alton solution but you really need to get some reading in and talk to people
here is a start point https://vincentspares.co.uk/help/

 

[Chris. S]

If you have one of these, then you have the original Miller CV1 voltage regulator. They can be made to work, but it takes time and patience. Most people don't bother, because even when cleaned and calibrated, and fitted with a diode to prevent contact burn, they rarely last more than a couple of thousand miles; then you have to do it all again. Chris.

 

[LoneStar]

The original Miller is a dynamo - it puts out DC current, so no rectifier needed. As noted, if the regulator is also the original Miller unit it's quite likely no longer doing its job. You can get electronic regulators, which fit inside the original case, to keep the original 6V or switch to 12V. I've used the VReg-2b with good results:

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

Or the dynamo itself may need attention. They are simple devices, and the parts likely to fail (armature, field coil, brushes) are readily available.

 

[pmcmanners]

Thanks for all the replies.

It is definitely the original 6v Miller dynamo and regulator as pictures above (Thx Chris S)

Tested Dynamo output before it gets to the regulator (2 wires coming out of the side of dynamo) and nothing.

Put a meter on the end output (brass pin) that goes to the Amp meter and the reading were all over the place - I was expecting a stable DC reading, but could be doing it wrong.

I assume if I got a modern electronic rectifier it would still need the DC feed from the dynamo - the regulator would then take this high DC voltage and regulate it to about 7.5v to charge the battery!

Anyone got any tips or tricks to test the dynamo? All we have do so far is look at the amp meter on headlight and used a volt meter on battery terminals when bike is running, and on the two wires going to the regulator.

Had a good day replacing a lot of crappy wiring - looks like Stevie Wonder has been working on it in the past !!!!!

A 12v upgrade is a possibility, but was very shocked at the price of the dynamo - anyone know where the cheapest place is to source one?

 

[pmcmanners]

The original Miller is a dynamo - it puts out DC current, so no rectifier needed. As noted, if the regulator is also the original Miller unit it's quite likely no longer doing its job. You can get electronic regulators, which fit inside the original case, to keep the original 6V or switch to 12V. I've used the VReg-2b with good results:

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

Or the dynamo itself may need attention. They are simple devices, and the parts likely to fail (armature, field coil, brushes) are readily available.

Many thanks for your reply - an electronic regulator is the way to go if I could get a reading out of the dynamo.

 

[pmcmanners]

It sounds as though you still have the original Miller system and the cylindrical device in the regulator housing is the Miller version of a regulator. They were always trouble and were regularly replaced even sixty years ago. You have had a voltmeter on the battery. Is it six or twelve volts? If six then that also suggests it is the original Miller. If the new owner want to keep it looking as near to original as possible then it is possible to replace the thing in the box with a modern electronic regulator or even something which will give him a 12 volt system but then he will have to change the battery, bulbs etc. There is a French produced alternator called an Alton which looks very similar to the original dynamo. produces 12 volts and is superior in every way to the original equipment. You would have to change the battery and bulbs but not the horn. The horn is probably where the second positive wire goes to. If neither of you is familiar with Vincent machinery then you really need to seek help from either the local section of the VOC or a professional Vincent mechanic. It is not a lot of work to change to an Alton but if neither of you is used to Vincents then you will be in for an interesting time.

Cheers timetraveller.

It definitely is the original Miller setup with the old fashioned voltage regulator.
If we can not get any output from the dynamo then we may need to go for the Alton 12v system.

Neither of us are used to working on a Vincent, but the owner of the bike is now a retired mechanic who had his own business for 40 years and can turn his hand to anything - one of the reasons he bought the bike was to mess around with it

Any trick on how to test the dynamo - think we have ran out !