Misc: Charging Systems Red Dot Amp meter Wiring Question D positive earth

[Speedtwin]

Fitted an Alton to my series D along with the supplied regulator rectifier. Podronics I think.
All fitted lovely and wired in my bike as per instructions the machine has a lovely red dot amp meter with the ignition warning lamp all in working condition.
So do not want to fry it.

I have a spare loom wire after wiring the alton in from the bike side and listed on wiring diagram by previous owner as being from the warning lamp.

I take it this is measuring for the red dot lamp to go out.
Where should I wire this into now, given I am positive earth?
Looks like it was originally wired to the yellow wire from the lucas 3l dynamo.
Many Thanks
Alan

 

[robmfj]

Following on from Alan's query. I , too, have an Alton but on a "C" along with Rita ignition and Grosset Starter. The problem I have encountered is stopping the engine with decompressor so as not to damage the starter sprag clutch, forgetting to turn off ignition switch and so potentially cooking Rita and draining battery.
This led me to thinking that a Red Dot ammeter would not look too out of place and provide an ignition light to remind me to switch off. The Alton instruction sheets don't seem to provide for an ignition light.
Alternatively is there such a thing as a period illuminated switch that doesn't look too out of place on the handle bars. Not so keen on keyed ignition, I'd lose the keys!
As an aside, I have a 30 ah battery in a sidecar to cope with all the extras and that even has an isolator switch, easily accessible. I have given up on the idea of an anti sumping tap for obvious reasons.
Thanks.
Rob

 

[vibrac]

I struggle with ignition lights my dim understanding is when the ignition light is in a circuit it lights when power comes from the battery only, but goes out when current is also supplied from the power source (Alton or Dynamo) quite how this is achieved in the circuit without a relay or diode I cannot understand

 

[Chris. S]

Hi Alan. The standard ignition warning lamp, is really a " dynamo not charging lamp". Because it is wired to battery live, via the ignition switch, it indicates both, that the ignition is switched on, and that the battery is not being charged.
Normally what happens, is that you switch on the ignition; this connects battery live to the ignition system, and to one terminal of the lamp. The other terminal of the lamp is connected to battery earth, via the very low resistance windings inside the dynamo, and so lights up. When you start the engine, the dynamo output rises to match the battery voltage. With the voltage on both terminals of the lamp now being more or less the same; no current flows through the lamp, and it goes out.
Unfortunately there is no current path back through the alternator windings, because there are diodes and other bits of electronics in the way. I have not yet seen any diagram showing how to connect a warning lamp to an Alton. Is there anyone out there who has?

 

[Snarling Beast]

Been there, sorted/done that....
I fitted an Alton to my 'D' a few years ago and was as defensive as you about not wanting to chance frying an original 'Red Dot' ammeter. And wanting the ignition warning light still to function.
Red Dot replicas are now readily available from a number of suppliers including the excellent Paul Goff, for about £55.
Lay down the original Red Dot like a fine wine in a cellar...
The trump card that Paul has is his 'No Charge Warning Light Driver'. I've fitted one and it works well.
Go to his site, click on the 'Motorcycle Electrics inc. Horns' (red dot!) button and spool down to 'Ammeters' You'll see his NCLD listed for £21.95.
My only reservation is that the warning light doesn't go out completely until you're fairly going along - perhaps the cut-off voltage is a tad high?
Usual disclaimers.

 

[Bill Cannon]

There is usually a warning light connector on the voltage regulator with an alternator set-up.

 

[robmfj]

Been there, sorted/done that....
I fitted an Alton to my 'D' a few years ago and was as defensive as you about not wanting to chance frying an original 'Red Dot' ammeter. And wanting the ignition warning light still to function.
Red Dot replicas are now readily available from a number of suppliers including the excellent Paul Goff, for about £55.
Lay down the original Red Dot like a fine wine in a cellar...
The trump card that Paul has is his 'No Charge Warning Light Driver'. I've fitted one and it works well.
Go to his site, click on the 'Motorcycle Electrics inc. Horns' (red dot!) button and spool down to 'Ammeters' You'll see his NCLD listed for £21.95.
My only reservation is that the warning light doesn't go out completely until you're fairly going along - perhaps the cut-off voltage is a tad high?
Usual disclaimers.

Thank you, Sir. The NCLD from Paul Goff looks as though it will work for me. I have now realised that a Lucas Red Dot ammeter is smaller by 1/4 inch than a Miller so not a straight swap for a "C" headlamp shell but at least a charge/ign light can be had and maybe even modify a repro miller ammeter to display a red light. I hope this has helped Alan's query and it will work with + earth for him. I will contact Paul after the bank holiday.
Rob

 

[vibrac]

There is usually a warning light connector on the voltage regulator with an alternator set-up.

well here is the Alton set up remember modern Alton regulators don't discharge/leak battery to earth when stationaryso dont need an isolator swich but would be nice to know when its not working
any suggestions in wiring up a warning lamp?

 

[Bill Cannon]

Sorry but don't know.
I have a Kubota alternator with a regulator that has (from memory) a yellow lead just for the warning light.

 

[robmfj]

Vibrac
It seems to me, I'm no electrical expert, that the simplest if not only solution with an Alton is to use an NCLD (no charge lamp detector) which can be obtained from Paul Goff. This will require at least a simple on/off switch as per the key/switch in the circuit diagram in your post otherwise you will display a light whenever the machine is not in use with battery connected. From the switched side connect the NCLD and lamp and then to earth.
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm will take you to the page on P Goff's site with the NCLD as well as further down a red dot ammeter which will accommodate a bulb if needed.
I appreciate that you don't need a switch with a magneto but cant see any other way round and would consider it good practice to isolate the charging system when not in use.
Just my tuppence worth and will get expert opinion from Paul this week.