E: Engine Hard starting.......due to cam timing.

greg brillus

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Been busy carrying out some work on an Egli with genuine Shadow engine........primarily set up as a race bike methinks, but has lights and horn.......Had a pair of 38 mm Gardeners.........1200 cc TPV heads/barrels.......Tri spark twin plug ignition. Ignition was out 180 degrees so there was my starting point........Gardeners too difficult to tune for a road engine.......removed and installed a new set of pumper 40 mm Dellortos' and made up some manifolds to suit.......Great all looking good so far.......Engine would run actually quite well, but very difficult to start.......tried different starting techniques but nothing really jumping out to make it better........It did have an oil leak at the timing cover........I suspected that it might have some big cams that were making the starting an issue....... removed the cover, naturally 2 of the spindles were loose and no seal at all on the valve lifter mech.......At this point I noticed the cam locating slots were out on both cams by 3 teeth retarded.........Hmmmm........Fixed all within the chest, re set the cams to bring the slots in line with the barrel centers........re set the ignition to 28 full advance, reassembled all parts and timing cover.......filled the oil tank with 15 w 40 oil, bled the feed line........plugs and caps on, fuel on opened the throttle fully twice, started 1st kick.........Love to know who was the last person to work on this bike........The reason I felt the engine may have had big cams in it was........when it was running before i removed the cover, it had quite a lot of reversion visual from the front carby........the cams were just Mk 2 Lightning cams so nothing crazy there........just retarded by 45 degrees.......So nice to be able to give the bike back to the owner knowing it will start ok and not be a total pig........Sometimes you have to look further than you think especially if the bike has an unknown or unusual history........I can give my right leg a break now..........Cheers.
 

Monkeypants

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I would guess that the bike has a lot more power now as well?
Surprising that it ran well with the valve timing so far off.

Glen
 

greg brillus

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If the engine was any kind of modern 4 valve type, it would have bent all the valves.......At first i didn't realise the ignition was out 180 deg, Upon kicking it over, it actually did start and run, although the exhaust note was odd to say the least........The givaway was the bad kicking back on the kickstart lever........last time i found this was on a Shadow resto........with rebuilt mag, the camring housing was on 180 out and it was kicking back just the same........one thing to be careful of here.......if the ignition is out like that, the engine can actually backfire and catch fire. As this bike is kick start only.....can anyone tell me what, if any, kind of other type of folding kickstart will work on a Vincent spline......perhaps some type of Jap lever or similar.......this bike has rear sets, and the stock Vin lever digs into your shin........i've heated and bent the lever which is sort of acceptable, but still not the best........Probabaly take it for a test run today........Cheers.
 

oexing

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Thinking about the unlikelyness of finding a kickstart lever with exactly same spline I would look for any lever with features you want and spline bore undersize and have it wire EDMed for Vincent fit. Cannot think of any other way to do it more economically. Best you measure up all sizes of spline so the EDM man can program the machine in half an hour and the rest is automatic wire EDM machining to very close tolerance.

Vic
 

chankly bore

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I believe the spline is 11/16" diameter, 40 "teeth". I've said before it's a damn shame it is not 3/4". Numerous other levers are that diameter. There is a Burman lever made by Terry Weedy/ Avery products which is fine on the "Comet on Steroids" but may be a bit short to spin a Twin.
 
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