FF: Forks Girdraulic Forks Removal Any Tips Please

[Speedtwin]

I am lining up now to remove my front end from my Rapide C.
An ongoing light restoration of my touring Rapide.
Will be taking of the complete unit,spring boxes first then damper then the whole shabang to the steering head.
Any tips would be greatly received,I have read up all the usual but not much information on the headstock, looking for information on removing the unit complete to the spindle from the headstock.
Looks straight forward which maybe my first mistake...

Thanks
Alan

 

[bmetcalf]

Have you read about using the front tommybar as a windlass to compress the front spring boxes? Some make tools to do it, but I have had good luck with the windlass method. Don't launch the springbox into the tank!

 

[Bill Thomas]

The damper in the middle controls the movement of the forks,
When you take it off the forks will drop and damage the alloy forks hitting the lower link ,
When you put it all back together, Maybe ?, Fit an Hydraulic Steering damper,
I do not want to ride a Vincent again without one !!,
I had to a few years ago, And was so worried, I forgot to do up my helmet strap !,
Just my thoughts, Cheers Bill.

 

[vibrac]

whole chapters on here about spring boxes
leave bottom bolts and refit at top first. Then I simply use a loop of (blue) nylon rope between the lower spring box fork and the top of the eccentric boss and with a tommy bar wind it up. Trick is to wind it up with the spring box hanging vertically then it swing it up to the leg you will see that in the swing the loop tightens by just a tad so you can do the swing until you arrive at just the right length to sit on the shoulder of the fork fixing.
make sure that the lower fixing bolt has a slight chamfer on the thread and I find a delicate lifting under the rope/spring box with a screwdriver aligns the bolt thread hole. When done up cut the rope and with a smart pull the end comes free.
easier to do than describe, there are about 50 other ways to do it but this is my long time way (until you cant get blue nylon rope anymore!)

 

[timetraveller]

I
It is going to depend upon exactly what you have. Here are some suggestions. With the bike on its wheels and the front damper partly compressed remove the front damper. Then get the front end in the air, possibly on the original front stand but if you still have the original full length front mudguard it will help if you use some blocks under the front stand to raise the front end. The reason for this is to allow the easier removal of the front wheel. Next remove the two trunnions which locate the bottom end of the brake cables into the brake arm. Remove the speedometer cable. Next remove the front wheel spindle and allow the wheel to fall to the floor. It should now tilt to one side and slide out from under the front mudguard. The pressure on the front springs is now reduced as the fork blades have got to their lowest position. If you use some cloth to protect the lower mudguard stays you can now carefully remove the bottom bolts from the spring boxes. It might be necessary to insert a thin screw driver between the top inside of the spring box fork and the boss on the girdraulic blade to take some of the pressure of the lower bolt. Now totally remove the spring boxes.

What happens next depends upon whether you have a plug and socket in the feed to the headlamp. If you have then it is easy. If not then you have to decide where you will break the continuity of the cables. There will be several cables going from the rear of the bike to the ammeter and switches and some more from the dip switch into the head lamp. At the worst you will have to disconnect all these, one at a time, and label where they should be attached to.

The next step depends upon what you intend to do. You could remove the lower front spindle and the upper rear spindle and then take away the forks, headlamp etc. If the concentrics are well adjusted then you can leave well alone. If they are sloppy, and many are, then you could remove the eccentrics from the bottom of the steering head, dismantle, clean and keep a record of what shims are where. On the other hand if you intend to remove the steering head spindle you can start to slacken the friction steering damper, slacken the top nut which pre-loads the cup and cone head races and slowly lower the forks plus steering head. At this stage you should have someone to help you by holding a clean plastic container under the steering head and trying to catch all the ball bearings which will fall out and pick up any dirt they can find on the floor of your workshop.

If the head races are good and the eccentrics seem ok then you can leave all that in place and just take the forks, headlamp, mudguard, stay etc. away from the rest of the bike.

If you let us know what the condition of the parts is and/or send a photograph it might be possible to give you different ideas as to how to go about this job.

 

[Speedtwin]

Thank you all for the tips and information.
I am looking forward to removing the springboxs in the morning.
We are T minus- 12 hours until launch.
I have the bike completely stripped down so all I have is an engine in the ufm and forks,rfm and wheels.
So not worried about damage of the precious stuff original touring guards and tank.
They are off to the strippers so I can evaluate what is left metal wise prior to re paint.

I struggled with the leaving the cycle in its original from the factory state as it was rotting, original touring guards in original dipped patina or not, the rust had to go.
It is a shame but the need to save the guards is greater I feel.
I did the rust kill and AF coated/injected into the rolled side skirt joints.
Hope fully I will have something I can work with when the enamel comes off.
So decision was made to do away with oily rag rusty but as left factory look for conservation which means rust demolition and a re coat following bridge strengthening works.

So if we are going this far then the forks are getting a complete rebuild.
Plan is to remove the boxes take the steering damper out and remove front damper which is being replaced by an AVO unit.
The original armstrong damper fitted will go to someone else to love.
Strip and re build in SS and new bushes shims, the front end and refit with new cup and cone will check out the cup and cone in the headstock also.

I was recently given another complete original front end from a friend who is a retiring bike breaker,81, he has given me a couple of boxes of his found back of 50 years of junk pile, old vincent parts stock, will report back on that in the future when I have time to go through it.
He did own several black shadows and is a valuable source of knowledge regarding the mark.
I have been building race bikes for his sons and now grandsons for some years now.

Back to the headstock.
Refitting 20 balls top, 20 bottom is correct ?
Order of play on steering head is from the bottom, felt washer/ or o ring, steel washer,cup, bearings cone in stock?
Torque for free movement or fall side to side weight of forks?

Again some cracker information thank you all.
That You Tube fella in Oregon is some craic, we all like him here in Gods own country.
He has raised more awareness of the marc, was listening to some guys chatting about his show recently,not Vincent men or ladies but he has defiantly sparked the thought.

Thanks for the tips keep them coming please.
Al






Alan

 

[Bill Thomas]

After you have fitted the felt washer, And adjusted the bearings,
I have found the washer is a bit too thick and it's hard to judge the tightness of the bearings,
So after a short ride maybe check the settings,
I make the washer a bit thinner now , Before fitting.

 

[b'knighted]

While you have it apart consider upgrading to taper roller headbearings.

 

[chankly bore]

Err, both cups, FT128 are in the U.F.M. From the bottom; FF36 ring plate and cone FT124 and 20 balls, the felt sort of fits around these and may need thinning a bit as Bill says. I assume you've got new bushes and spindles, so it should be easy enough to set up for nil play. Taper rollers are a good idea if you do a lot of miles, but if you've got good unworn original parts you should be fine. A modern steering damper does help, though. The Modified Front End copiously covered in this Forum, really transforms the bike if you want less stressful handling. Thank you for not over restoring the bike. There are too many "polished turds" around!

 

[timetraveller]

I have hesitated to mention the modified geometry as the batch I am waiting for are all spoken for and I will be out of action for a while. There are two things. The geometry, change of suspension, damper, springs etc makes a big difference. Secondly I have found a taper roller bearing which will fit into the the steering head lug. This requires the head lug to be removed from the oil tank and a very small amount machined out to take the taper roller bearing. The inner diameter of this bearing is slightly larger than the original 1.25" but it would be straight forwards to make a batch of modified steering heads with a larger diameter stem which would fit straight into the taper rollers. The cost of the bearings and the machining would be less than the cost of replacement cup and cone bearings and would have the advantage of not having ball bearings falling out onto the floor if dismantled. Some of you might like to think about this for the future.