OP: Oil Pump A nice Ulimate Engine

[Vincent Brake]

Hi there, anybody got ideas about the oilsystem in the engine?? (i know Herve Harmon ones)
I am recovering a well worn set of cases, (Most welding is done now, new Main bearing housing) and am trying to make it into an ultimate engine.
ONE: with a bendix starter under the big primary sprocket with a Z=74 gearwheel to be driven by starter, i needed to make me a flat gearbox cover G2 (layshaft bearing moved inwards, done with roller bearing, one side axial trust), thats the easy job done.
TWO: a better oil system with a wet sump under the engine, to contain about 4 l oil, oil drain connected from the scavenge chamber, by an 1" hole. (it wont be THAT visible)
Now I was thinking putting in a Japanese oilpump to drive from the large idler, but have no idea which??
I can weld up a oil pump housing in the timing chest, with a suction pipe down; either outside or inside through the big hole. Through a modified timing cover one can make the feeds and even retain the original oilfilter (agian bit of welding etc.) and also from the top of the oil yet OP39 a pipe to the rockers, so no more unfilterd oil. and have a two bar yet of oil on those terrible cam folowers (DLC coating) and bronze bushes.I align the holes in the megacycle cams with the spindles (they need new bushes than) Spindles Et.All made from Boehler K340 and nitrided.
The whole excersise is making it OK for even a 200.000 Miles life, with oil changes like my car (about none)
Its all to go into a egli style frame set for touring. 5 speed close ratio, surtees, TPV 90 mm (or is it 92) set on 8,5~9:1, 38 mm Ceriani, double API Lockheeds brake, own rear hub.
it will take a while but it can be done.
Vincent S

any ideas about that oil system? or about the rest. (apart from I am mad, thats no news)

 

[Oldhaven]

Wow....

Ducati Bevel type wet sump?

 

[bmetcalf]

I think late HD XR750s had an enlarged sump, partly to increase volume for oil breather control, so your plan has somewhat of a precedent.

Hey, we can edit again!

 

[Vincent Brake]

I think late HD XR750s had an enlarged sump, partly to increase volume for oil breather control, so your plan has somewhat of a precedent.

Hey, we can edit again!

indeed so, very nice

 

[Chris Launders]

Well you won't need a scavenge with a wet sump so how about using say a Norton Commando pump with both halves as pressure, one circuit for the crank and the other for the cams etc, two pressure reliefs, that way you can control the flow better.
Or like the AJS twin and G50/7R which have two separate pumps, again you could use both as pressure.

 

[davidd]

Vincent,

MPH 420 has a good description of the conversion using a Honda 125 oil pump if you have it.

David

 

[Vincent Brake]

Vincent,

MPH 420 has a good description of the conversion using a Honda 125 oil pump if you have it.

David

I guess thats the conversion from Herve Hamon, doing onley half the oil system??

 

[greg brillus]

Roller bearing cranks do not need lots of oil, especially too much pressure. But the cams and followers do........The stock feed system to supply these is hopeless. A better set up would be to direct flowing oil at each cam lobe and follower. I even thought about making some kind of trough or bath under each cam so that it consonantly rotates in a bath of oil, just like how modern OHC engines have their cams in the head that run a a bath of oil. You look at these modern engines with high mileage on them and the cams look like brand new. The cams and followers on a Vincent are way too small and this does not help. The other trick is to make up some "squirter nozzels" that direct an oil jet directly at the cam/follower like how the Horner's did to their Goodwood bike. The other trick they did was to run a vacuum pump on the engine to eliminate any breather issues that also plague these engines, that is one part of their bike that no one notices.

 

[davidd]

Well, I seem to remember it as the whole system. It is a dry sump, but as Greg knows, John Trease made the big end a plain bearing with bolt on con rod. The first engine he did was for Ian Boyd and it was a 58 BHP single. It seems to be a good way to make some power.

I think Hamon used the stock big end and jetted down the oil flowing to it so it would not be overwhelmed with oil. Horners use a roller lifter for many of their engines. I know from talking with Steve Hamel that he considered going to an additional oil pump so he could point oil jets at the underside of the pistons to keep them cool while running at Bonneville.

And I think Patrick Godet uses plain bearing big end in the new Flash, which also sports an oil pump on the large idler.

The above photos are Irving Vincent parts used in their engine.

David

 

[Vincent Brake]

what i do do nowadays is: I align the holes in the megacycle cams with the holes in the spindles, giving a yet of oil just as the folower enters the cam ramp. The yet is nearly nothing now..... with pelgrim pump, even a twin start. At this point the bronze bushes, starve from oil, but thats a moment.
I wonder how it holds when there is 2 bar yet of oil,
I will make up a timing side cover with glass in them, there are plenty Plain ones arround.