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Misc: Everything Else 1951 Black Shadow Restoration

craig

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VOC Member
20201220_ProjectShadow51.jpg

I was offered a Black Shadow project in 2013. I purchased the project and immediately started work on it.
Took the cylinders and heads to local Vincent machinist only 3 hrs away.
Crankshaft had been completed ,prior to my purchase, by a Canadian expert and also the tank was painted and done by "Bones".
Then, another Vincent project came up, Then a buddy stopped by and said" Go buy a BMW and lets travel the USA".
Then I got a wild hair and wanted to do the Trans America Trail (TAT). So I purchased a Husqvarna 701E and proceeded to farkle it out for the off road journey. So the Shadow was boxed up for another day.

All that behind, I am now focused on this Shadow project.
The pic above shows the big stuff with a thousand other pieces and projects in boxes.

My goal is a street friendly Black Shadow to ride on a semi daily basis, couple times a week.
 
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oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
The anaerobic Permatex at left could be my choice for engine case halves, provided it is a low strength type. For simpler covers any other types should do , when not much load gets transmitted by the seal from crank or gearbox components forces. In these places silicon or Hylomar is allright but not my choice on crankcase halves when a lot of forces from crank plus Vincent suspension/frame functions require a dead-solid unit .
Most times I won´t take silicon for gaskets in an engine, how do you remove remains of silicon before next assembling ?? Anaerobic seals can be softened with paint stripper and cleaned with plastic scraper, Hylomar with acetone, but silicon - messy.

Vic
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
How much does a fully assembled Vincent twin engine weigh ?
asking for a friend.

Maybe just crankshaft and cases?

Thanks
Craig
 
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greg brillus

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VOC Member
A complete engine including mag, gen, carb's is about 90 Kg's, or 200 Lb's roughly. A twin set of cases on their own is about 19 Kg's, the new ones are about 20 kg's due to extra metal around the bearing housings. And a twin crank assembly is about 16 odd kg's.
 

greg brillus

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VOC Member
The 2 Threebond's I use are 1207 b (black color) and 1215 (grey color) on all others. It is a non solvent neutral cure sagless sealant (does not smell like vinegar) I use it sparingly just a light coating on one surface and assemble straight away.........wipe off the excess which is absolutely minimal.........the covers come off easily and the cured sealant is easy to remove and do again if needed. I don't believe I've had any issues with it coming off and causing any issues. The Vincent cases are a massive structure, using enough through studs and 3 good sized hollow dowels to align the cases, so I don't believe there would be any shifting issues........an aircraft engine can go through massive temp changes like full power on climb, then rapid cooling in a dive or rapid decent..........Unless the Vincent goes from a Picador to a Lifleboat engine in one go, I don't see it as being an issue. Well they were just recycled Merlin's anyway...........
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Head bolt installation into the crankcase.
Is Wellseal the best thread sealant for the upper portion of the engaged threads?

What is the torque value to be used on the studs installed into the crankcase?

MO15HeadBoltsInstall.jpg
 

roy the mechanic

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VOC Member
Funny you ask about wellseal, I was intending to add it to the previous post with sealants. As the head nuts go to 38 lbs ft, it will "do" for the studs too. Measure the available depth for the 2 rear studs to avoid contact with the spindles.
 

vibrac

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VOC Member
38 lbs ft is a bit heavy for my recall I was told 32 at my mothers knee (The only time I use a torque spanner on the Vin and then I feel a little guilty :) *)
and even 32 is done as 25 ish in the evening and 32 in the following morning, delicate things those barrels
*Dont forget the first real torque wrench was only patented in 1935 in USA and the beam deflector type in 1948 so I doubt if there was any at Stevenage. Back then tight is tight too tight is busted.
 
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davidd

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VOC Member
Which head bolt (stud?) would that be?
Which spindle?
In general, check the rear timing-side studs. It is the spindles that carry oil to the piston skirts. The spindle has to deliver oil to the skirt and the oil passage has to get around the head stud. As a result, the spindle can be very near the stud, itself. A good test is to measure the spindle that was removed and compare its length to the length of the replacement spindle. If the used spindle has been shortened, it is likely that you will have to shorten the replacement.

Apologies for not knowing the twin specifically, but on the Comet it is the inlet follower stud. I had to shorten the one in my racer. I did not realize this until the replacement spindle would not go into the hot case far enough to be at the correct height to match the other spindles.

David
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks all, checked all (4) of my timing side head bolts and they all install full depth.
If I remember, Wellseal is kind of a runny, thin, grey liquid sealant.
Would my in stock Threebond 1184 be equivalent?

I am thinking 15-20 ft lbs for head bolt torque or maybe a mild grunt for torque.
 

oexing

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Any low viscosity low strength thread locking would do , don´t apply too much of it so in later times you can undo the studs.
For tightening the long studs I´d go for fairly mild force on the nuts. Keep in mind the studs are common steel and cylinders plus heads are alu, a long distance from bottom to top. And in operating temperature there will be quite some growth that puts another strain in the studs. So in cold condition you don´t put too much torque on nuts, won´t be much more oiltight from this. I do have a torque wrench but almost never use it except maybe on car engine heads. Just a mechanic´s feel on spanners for me.
My guess: A lot more threads were wrecked by torque wrenches than by hand feel - by getting numbers on the wrench dial wrong . . . .

Vic
 

craig

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
It looks like Threebond 1184, Hylomar AF, Hylomar Blue in my inventory would be suitable for Head Bolt upper thread sealant. Torqued to a value of appropriate experienced mechanic's grunt using a box end spanner.

The G50 Pivot bearing plate needs to be installed on the timing side crankcase half prior to joining the case halves together. Any tips on G50 install? I didn't find any coverage in KTB.
 

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