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Misc: Everything Else Series D seat & seat base


aluminiumbronze

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Would anyone have some drawings good pics of the series D seat/seat base, understand the early ones were a concoction of steel leaves in a frame, later a pressed metal base, mine is pressed metal and looks like it may have been fiddled with over the years, had side hinges and the bolt/screw holes for the original hinge are non apparent.
As usual any help or advice greatly appreciated.
Pictures of mine attached, combat green paint will be gone imminently.AA1608E9-C292-44EF-8C76-407051028AD5.jpeg
 

Attachments

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have made 4 or 5 of these pans. They are all one piece, as I remember, except for the mounting nuts to the front hinge. I used to make them with a slip roller. I made the roll for the partial cone first and then I hammered the surrounding area flat. The originals were all pressed steel, but I could not turn up the back end easily so I welded it on. It was upholstered so it did not show.

There was a subframe to the seat instead of a foam. The subframe was strips of spring steel crosswise on the subframe rails and on top of that was a horsehair pad, then the vinyl.

I have an original pan around that I kept to duplicate new seat pans. I am not exactly sure where it is, but I will take a look.

The subframe was damaged beyond repair, but I saw this photo of a subframe sitting on a tub. It is damaged on the front timing side, but you can see how it was. Sorry about the low resolution. With luck, someone else will have some photos.

Series D Seat Subframe.PNG
Most owners do not use the subframe and replace it with foam. Shown in this photo are the rear spring clips to hold the seat down on the frame of the open models. The enclosed model uses a furniture catch to hold it to the tub.

I don't think yours is an original seat pan. The original pan has a round, or partial cone shape to form the clearance for the rear tire. Additionally, the original pan had holes stamped into the flat perimeter of under part of the pan. These holes had steel barbs stamped into them so the upholstery could be done without rivets.

David
 

aluminiumbronze

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I have made 4 or 5 of these pans. They are all one piece, as I remember, except for the mounting nuts to the front hinge. I used to make them with a slip roller. I made the roll for the partial cone first and then I hammered the surrounding area flat. The originals were all pressed steel, but I could not turn up the back end easily so I welded it on. It was upholstered so it did not show.

There was a subframe to the seat instead of a foam. The subframe was strips of spring steel crosswise on the subframe rails and on top of that was a horsehair pad, then the vinyl.

I have an original pan around that I kept to duplicate new seat pans. I am not exactly sure where it is, but I will take a look.

The subframe was damaged beyond repair, but I saw this photo of a subframe sitting on a tub. It is damaged on the front timing side, but you can see how it was. Sorry about the low resolution. With luck, someone else will have some photos.

View attachment 31723
Most owners do not use the subframe and replace it with foam. Shown in this photo are the rear spring clips to hold the seat down on the frame of the open models. The enclosed model uses a furniture catch to hold it to the tub.

I don't think yours is an original seat pan. The original pan has a round, or partial cone shape to form the clearance for the rear tire. Additionally, the original pan had holes stamped into the flat perimeter of under part of the pan. These holes had steel barbs stamped into them so the upholstery could be done without rivets.

David
Thanks David, always unbelievably helpful, mine is an enclosed Prince, the pic you have is the earlier type with the concoction of spring steel strips, late ones were a pressed pan but the one I have was altered pre 73 when Bill Irwin bought it and altered again by Jon V who had the bike for the last 40 years, not sure if any of it is original. Not many Princes/ Knights around over here to have a look at, hopefully the drawings turn up and can replicate an original.
I have also seen a Prince with a fibreglass one, not sure where that came from, Cyril Malem did make D bits till about 20 years ago but sold off all the moulds etc. then.
The search and research goes on.
Hope you are well David.
 

Bill Thomas

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
I think mine was a " Smith" one, " Sprint -------- " His Son raced in the 70s, He did Fi' glass fairings etc,
I had a Moto Guzzi Le Mans top fairing off him also.
 
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stumpy lord

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Thanks David, always unbelievably helpful, mine is an enclosed Prince, the pic you have is the earlier type with the concoction of spring steel strips, late ones were a pressed pan but the one I have was altered pre 73 when Bill Irwin bought it and altered again by Jon V who had the bike for the last 40 years, not sure if any of it is original. Not many Princes/ Knights around over here to have a look at, hopefully the drawings turn up and can replicate an original.
I have also seen a Prince with a fibreglass one, not sure where that came from, Cyril Malem did make D bits till about 20 years ago but sold off all the moulds etc. then.
The search and research goes on.
Hope you are well David.
The late Phil Primmer had , heaven knows where. a fibre glass mould for a D seat base that I made, it is possible around somewhere.
stumpy
 

davidd

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
the pic you have is the earlier type with the concoction of spring steel strips, late ones were a pressed pan
Thanks!

My seat had a pressed steel pan and the springs and the horsehair pad. I would resist the idea that there is an early and late version mostly because there was not enough time or production to make large changes, but it could be so. I would note that the open D seat was exactly the same seat, which did not fit the open model well because it was designed for the enclosed model. This had to do with the extra width of the enclosed model seat, which had to span to cover the edges of the leg shields. This seat on the open model has a width that cantilevers over the tubes that make up the sides of the rear seat frame making it clear that the seat was designed for the enclosed model. My Knight was 11,055 reg. TNY55, as I remember.

Cyril did advertise enclosures under "CTG."

I have a complete set of molds that I will list for sale in Floggers Corner soon. They are rather bulky, so I expect they would be difficult and costly to ship overseas.
Molds.PNG

David
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There are at least three different 'D' seat types. On the prototype Knight it was a hand beaten and welded, rough system that was clearly made by someone who was not a panel beater. That might be the only one like that. I replaced that with a new seat, over 50 years ago which has a pressed steel base similar to the one in posting #1. I have also seen several of the ones with the metal strips and my guess is that they were an attempt to produce a more comfortable seat but whether that was before or after the pressed steel base I have no way of knowing. GRP is an ideal replacement material for one of these bases and would be cheap to make given one to copy.
 

Gary Gittleson

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
Here's my open D seat. The pan was clearly factory made. The front portion with the hinge seemed to have been added on later. Unlike the rest of the seat, it's stainless steel. I did some repairs to the main portion in that area, as it was rather rusty. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of it in that state. Those two "things" at the rear of the underside are pieces of 3/4" poly pipe cut to clip over the sub-frame. This seat did not have any ribs. The second picture is of the finished product after reupholstering by RK Leighton.
 

Attachments

macvette

Well Known and Active Website User
VOC Member
There are at least three different 'D' seat types. On the prototype Knight it was a hand beaten and welded, rough system that was clearly made by someone who was not a panel beater. That might be the only one like that. I replaced that with a new seat, over 50 years ago which has a pressed steel base similar to the one in posting #1. I have also seen several of the ones with the metal strips and my guess is that they were an attempt to produce a more comfortable seat but whether that was before or after the pressed steel base I have no way of knowing. GRP is an ideal replacement material for one of these bases and would be cheap to make given one to copy.
When I found my open D, it had a very rough homemade seat with the base made of 3 pieces of wood to form the arch for bump clearance. The good thing was that it had the original hinge. Bob Culver supplied a new seat with the pan made from fibreglass. It came with a hinge like a door hinge which was no good. I fitted the original hinge and that cured the problem. I got the seat from Bob Culver in 2007 but dont know if he still supplies them. Maybe he could supply just a pan.
Mac
 
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