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Tech. Advice: Series 'B' / 'C' 500cc/1000cc Bikes
Programmable ignition
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<blockquote data-quote="Oldhaven" data-source="post: 91644" data-attributes="member: 2879"><p>I have been running a Power Arc HD single fire (Two coils, no waste spark) programmable ignition since late summer last year, though weather is preventing any further testing lately. In order to use it I had to accept the HD 45 degree angle that is programmed into the ignition, and also had to time the ignition to TDC on the front cylinder as number 1. The Rapide starts and runs great and I put about 300 miles on it before it got too cold /rainy/snowy to continue. Apparently a Vincent is not too particular about that timing discrepancy over the 720 degrees. I did think that the average Vin twin owner would not be happy accepting the odd angle and timing on what is normally number two cylinder, so I approached one of the principals at Power Arc about getting the ignition reprogrammed for 50 degrees and rear cylinder as number one. Apparently that is not as easily done as I had hoped and I will have to make a small but substantial for me investment to get that done. There are also some new version systemic changes being made to the Power Arc modules to simplify the types needed for single, twin, single fire, dual fire, single plug, dual plug to allow using a single ignition type and a smaller variety of coils. I was waiting to get all that behind me and to work out coil mounting details before saying too much. </p><p></p><p>As David mentions, Bob Larmour and I have been working on modifying his housing used for another more standard HD ignition. We hope to reduce the diameter required for the 3" diameter HD module to a British dimensioned 2.7" mount similar to a Lucas points plate. The larger HD housing interferes a bit with the oil filter housing requiring some metal removal. Old Britts uses this available size mounting adapter for the Power Arc ignition they sell for vertical twin Nortons. That is what Cyborg used for his adaptation to a Norton point box, but it required a bit of creative fabrication. Bob and I hope to make this easier with a purpose built housing and shaft to suit the Vincent. Bill Norton is also using one of these adapted systems on his Comet engine and is quite pleased.</p><p></p><p>As is shown in the Power Arc website, it is possible to buy at reasonable cost an edge card programmer cable with USB and download software to a laptop that allows the user to design a new advance curve and upload it to the ignition module. This can be done without removing the ignition from the bike or retiming making tuning relativley fast and easy. While I don't think this would be useful and might be a bit too risky to engine and piston life for the average rider to get fancy with, highly tuned machines with high compression, dual plugs or modified cams and racers looking for the best performance might want to play with this, especially if a dyno is available.</p><p></p><p>Here are the curves I am running on my Rapide right now as shown on my PA programming software. They are what comes as programmed on the HD Power Arc single fire system. When I finally finish my Comet project and put a PA system on my TP head dual plug special I will be using a Voes switch to automatically change the timing maps under load, and may put an on/off swich on the other sensor wire to vary timing experimentally until I arrive at a good conclusion. Without a dyno or a good feel for racing conditions, I don't think seat of the pants changes are anything I can quantify. For now, I have grounded both sensor wires to give the most advanced timing. No noticeable pinking and performance and starting is good. The sensor wire ground and unground switching is how to change maps As you can see there are three sparks per event and the curves do not simply flatline at around 2000 RPM as a lot of ignitions and the Vincent ATD tend to, but continue to change for considerably longer. it would be great if some of you with more knowledge of timing advance could comment on this. Dwell and coil saturation timing is also programmable, but messing about with this could cause some problems. Rev limit can also be set.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]19936[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]19937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]19938[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]19939[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>So, for now that is where this is at. I hope to see some results of the module reprogramming from PA this late winter or spring, and to do some testing, on my Rapide and with several other owners who have expressed an interest in trying out the first ten units.</p><p></p><p>More to come</p><p></p><p>Ron</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oldhaven, post: 91644, member: 2879"] I have been running a Power Arc HD single fire (Two coils, no waste spark) programmable ignition since late summer last year, though weather is preventing any further testing lately. In order to use it I had to accept the HD 45 degree angle that is programmed into the ignition, and also had to time the ignition to TDC on the front cylinder as number 1. The Rapide starts and runs great and I put about 300 miles on it before it got too cold /rainy/snowy to continue. Apparently a Vincent is not too particular about that timing discrepancy over the 720 degrees. I did think that the average Vin twin owner would not be happy accepting the odd angle and timing on what is normally number two cylinder, so I approached one of the principals at Power Arc about getting the ignition reprogrammed for 50 degrees and rear cylinder as number one. Apparently that is not as easily done as I had hoped and I will have to make a small but substantial for me investment to get that done. There are also some new version systemic changes being made to the Power Arc modules to simplify the types needed for single, twin, single fire, dual fire, single plug, dual plug to allow using a single ignition type and a smaller variety of coils. I was waiting to get all that behind me and to work out coil mounting details before saying too much. As David mentions, Bob Larmour and I have been working on modifying his housing used for another more standard HD ignition. We hope to reduce the diameter required for the 3" diameter HD module to a British dimensioned 2.7" mount similar to a Lucas points plate. The larger HD housing interferes a bit with the oil filter housing requiring some metal removal. Old Britts uses this available size mounting adapter for the Power Arc ignition they sell for vertical twin Nortons. That is what Cyborg used for his adaptation to a Norton point box, but it required a bit of creative fabrication. Bob and I hope to make this easier with a purpose built housing and shaft to suit the Vincent. Bill Norton is also using one of these adapted systems on his Comet engine and is quite pleased. As is shown in the Power Arc website, it is possible to buy at reasonable cost an edge card programmer cable with USB and download software to a laptop that allows the user to design a new advance curve and upload it to the ignition module. This can be done without removing the ignition from the bike or retiming making tuning relativley fast and easy. While I don't think this would be useful and might be a bit too risky to engine and piston life for the average rider to get fancy with, highly tuned machines with high compression, dual plugs or modified cams and racers looking for the best performance might want to play with this, especially if a dyno is available. Here are the curves I am running on my Rapide right now as shown on my PA programming software. They are what comes as programmed on the HD Power Arc single fire system. When I finally finish my Comet project and put a PA system on my TP head dual plug special I will be using a Voes switch to automatically change the timing maps under load, and may put an on/off swich on the other sensor wire to vary timing experimentally until I arrive at a good conclusion. Without a dyno or a good feel for racing conditions, I don't think seat of the pants changes are anything I can quantify. For now, I have grounded both sensor wires to give the most advanced timing. No noticeable pinking and performance and starting is good. The sensor wire ground and unground switching is how to change maps As you can see there are three sparks per event and the curves do not simply flatline at around 2000 RPM as a lot of ignitions and the Vincent ATD tend to, but continue to change for considerably longer. it would be great if some of you with more knowledge of timing advance could comment on this. Dwell and coil saturation timing is also programmable, but messing about with this could cause some problems. Rev limit can also be set. [ATTACH=full]19936[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]19937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]19938[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]19939[/ATTACH] So, for now that is where this is at. I hope to see some results of the module reprogramming from PA this late winter or spring, and to do some testing, on my Rapide and with several other owners who have expressed an interest in trying out the first ten units. More to come Ron [/QUOTE]
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Tech. Advice: Series 'B' / 'C' 500cc/1000cc Bikes
Programmable ignition
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