C: Clutch Increasing clutch lift for multiplate clutches

[vibrac]

I think the original clutch is the one for the road I am not so sure about racing
certainly my variation on the clutch story was I bought a multiplate because the original was giving trouble as soon as I put it on the shelf prior to fitting the original perked up and went for another year or so.

 

[ClassicBiker]

The installing of a multiple clutch is a retrograde step, it should be understood that the the first 998cc HRD motorcycles, the Series A Twins, had multiplate clutches that were found to be inadequate, so a brilliant Australian engineer, Phil Irving designed a revolutionary alternative to that archaic and troublesome device, the single plate assisted servo clutch, as John Appleton states, it is the only clutch that you will ever need.

You are correct the reason the complex servo clutch was conceived was to overcome the lack of suitable materials at the time to transfer the available power. The inadequate Burman clutch featured on the series A was proof that both PCV and PEI were happy to use a propriety item if 1) it were up to the task at hand, 2) it reduce overhead costs, there by maximizing profits. Advancements in available friction material, spring steels, heat treatment all make the far simpler multiplate clutch a viable option. The last of the Meridan Bonnevilles were making in the neighborhood of 50 HP as they came from the factory and many owners made a few simple mods to push that output beyond the 55 HP of a Vincent twin and all transmitted their power through multiplate clutches. Today's superbikes transmit more than twice the power of a twin through multiplate clutches with no problems. I very much doubt either PCV or PEI would have given a thought to designing the servo clutch had the Burman clutch been capable. The price of any vehicle is dependent on the cost of building it versus what the public is willing to pay. The cost of the servo clutch undoubtedly had a detrimental effect on profit as it was manufactured specifically for a Vincent twin and never achieved the economy of scale that Burman experienced for their clutches.
Does the servo clutch work? Undoubtedly it does. Do multiplate clutches work? They do. Do multiplate clutches have toggles and pins that can wearout? No they don't. Do multiplate clutches have shoes that require specialist services to reline? No they don't. Does my home made multiplate clutch using Triumph twin hub and basket, commercially available Kevlar friction plates care about any oil that might might weep past PD26? Not in the least. The mechanical advantage created by the clutch lever, G91/1, and ET27/2SS means the effort on my part to lift the clutch, even though I use Kibble White 750 springs, is completely acceptable.
I would ask if the servo clutches is all that and a bag of chips why didn't it find its way on to the Meteor, Comet, or Grey Flash? It is often said that one of the reasons for the existence of the servo clutch was so that injured veterans would have an lighter clutch to use. Surely veterans bought the 500 cc models as well as the 1000 cc models. I would suggest the reason the servo wasn't fitted, was the Burman was found to be adequate and cost effective. Finally, even when a Burman clutch does give problems on the 500 cc models, no tries and fit a servo clutch as a solution. They fit a Honda clutch, superior materials, less expense, simpler.
Steven

 

[Peter Holmes]

I am sure that all modern multiplate clutches bear no comparison at all to the original Burman cork insert clutch, they are markedly superior, but you only have look at this forum to see that fitting any of the modern multiplate clutches that are either adaptations of modern clutches or custom made clutches are far from fit and forget, although I have not heard too many complaints about the Newby clutch, so I would reserve my judgement on that one. But for me I am sticking with the original clutch, not because I am a dyed in wool standard man, far from it, I use many deviations from standard, but my standard clutch simply works for me, it probably also worked quite well for Tony Rose and Stuart Jenkinson and Marcus Bowden, and I am never going to give my clutch anything like the usage they did/do, I love its lightness, especially as the years pile on, it performed wonderfully in Italy 4 years ago and also in Belgium and Austria this year, two up with luggage, it would have to seriously malfunction for me to even consider changing it.

 

[hadronuk]

The installing of a multiple clutch is a retrograde step, it should be understood that the the first 998cc HRD motorcycles, the Series A Twins, had multiplate clutches that were found to be inadequate, so a brilliant Australian engineer, Phil Irving designed a revolutionary alternative to that archaic and troublesome device, the single plate assisted servo clutch, as John Appleton states, it is the only clutch that you will ever need.

Thanks for the history lesson. A front brake that works could be called retrograde, but as sometimes ride my bike as was intended, I prefer to improve my chances of staying alive.
A long time club member pointed out to me that if a classic bike is heavily modified, the original reason for buying it- to experience what the bike was intended to be - is negated.
I AGREE, which is why as I have said I have the intention, if not the time to fit an original clutch.
I should emphasize I did not remove the original clutch.
It is always my intention to make the original design work as well as it can.
Only when I conclude it cannot be done satisfactorily do I fit a modified part- always with the aim of keeping to the look and spirit of the original design as much as possible.
In the case of the clutch, demonstrably it can be made to work well. I'm not disputing that.

 

[Peter Holmes]

Just to clarify, if the non standard front brake that you that you have fitted to your bike has improved the braking performance then I would not describe it as retrograde. For the way I ride my bike the standard clutch does all I ask of it, mainly thanks to Tony Maughan and Bob Culver, if for some reason it ceases to work faultlessly I would attempt to get it repaired or serviced back to as good as it is at present, if that proved to be impossible then I would have no hesitation in fitting a multipoint clutch that had proven itself to work at least as well as the standard clutch should operate, I am not sure that anyone has achieved that yet.

 

[van drenth]

So what to do with a grabby V2 clutch, I have one. Tried a lot of things and nothing solved the "take off" problem.
van Drenth JC

 

[Peter Holmes]

Hopefully Steven, ClassicBiker can give you the solution, I am unable to, other revert back to the standard clutch, that can work extremely well if properly set up.

 

[hadronuk]

So what to do with a grabby V2 clutch, I have one. Tried a lot of things and nothing solved the "take off" problem.
van Drenth JC

If the friction plates are the bronze sintered metal type, I can guarantee my quick fix works to cure grabbing.

 

[Albervin]

Without reading all of the above I jump in and will no doubt be pounced upon.
I bought my first twin in 2000 and it was a goer. That is all that could be said of it. I rebuilt the engine which really wasn't that hard. I spent a lot of time and a bit of money trying to make the clutch grab and free at the right times. I gave up and bought a V3. It was way cheaper than a complete and new original set. After twenty years it still does what it has to do.
A couple of years ago I bought a C Shadow that has had a Suzuki clutch fitted. It also has a different pivot point. Now, back in 1999 I had a borrowed Shadow with a Suzuki clutch and the thing just would not release. This caused some major problems which culminated in the pushrod drilling through the actuating lever on the top of a Scottish hill. The modified actuator is a dream. Very light, positive and predictable.The extended G91/1 plus the rest of the hardware makes the clutch do what it should. Some people run it wet and others run it dry. In this case I had no choice as the bike came that way. But it does show that it is about how you set up your clutch that matters and NOT what type of clutch you use.
Personally, I would not have gone down the Suzuki clutch road and I may weld the cover back to standard. First though I need to finish the engine rebuild and ride it.

 

[Vincent Brake]

ive used the V3 cluch in two bikes for over 75T km now.
and if set up properly i.e. all is centric, than no problems, and if the actuating arm is lenghtend by welding just a mere 3 mm or so, the lift is exccelent.

oh and b.t.w. I do dive IT (or as you call her SHE) just to stay alive, as an VFR would kill me riding to fast toooo easy.

and i am not that good a quick rider...

so this bike has done me really well, i can travell all places without fear of braking down and the AA route back....

It all took me a while, but i am a very happy guy pottering, ALL my Miles on it:
bit better brakes, bit better clutch, bit better power, bit better carbie, bit better roadholding, bit better tyres, bit better oils, bit better Electrics, bit better of everything.

IS it standard? NO by no means, do i ride it, YES till i can't do nomore.

Than again, off course there is a standard one in the livingroom.
No oil, No E5 gasoiline, No battery but Standard yes. thus still leaking