Black Shadow with buggered numbers.

Albervin

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Thanks for your input. Just sent numbers with pictures to the Machine Registrar. It just doesn't seem to make sense.
Jeb, now the rabbit is out of the hole the bike will have history. It is what it is and that depends on what people want. It also depends on the quality of the rebuilt bike. A totally fake bike made of totally Vincent parts is worth something. I am assuming too much maybe but all bikes, all Vincents, have a value.
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
The thing is Jeb do you want to buy the bike as an investment or to ride? The Machine Registrar should have been able to tell you whether the bike is known to have been stolen at some time in the distant past and. assuming that it has not been, then it is a Vincent twin which means that you can rebuild it to any state of tune and any colour you like. If you really want it to look like a Shadow then all the parts are available and in fact very many Rapides have the 'Shadow Clock' fitted as it was so imposing. Similarly ribbed drums have been retro fitted to many bikes. Just don't pay a premium because it might, or might not, be a Shadow. If you definitely want a Shadow then they are available but unless you know the history it could just as well need a rebuild as a bike which has been sitting unloved for 40 years.
 

Peter Holmes

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
At this moment only two people know what this bike actually is, Simon and Jeb, intriguing isn't it, with regards to the value, who knows where it should be, looking at the Stafford Show Bonham's Auction we are entering choppy waters, originality and provenance seem to be the only things that guarantee high prices, we all know that the future value should not matter if you want a good motorcycle to ride, but with the current asking prices (as opposed to £65.00 for a Rapide in 1965) you would like think that in the future your money is safe and that you could cash it in if you need to.
 
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greg brillus

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
One of the better ones I've seen in recent years was a "B" Rapide with an engine number in the mid 500's where the frame numbers were 1900 apart...............:p
 

Robert Watson

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
I had a very original one owner (I was Number 2 owner) B Rapide one number off the mid 500's and it sure wasn't 1900 apart!
 

Simon Dinsdale

VOC Machine Registrar
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
Ah the 1900 engine to frame number difference rule. I won't give any numbers as to what changed and when, but of the approx 11,000 Vincents made after 1945. approx 1500 of them do NOT conform to the fabled 1900 rule. The only way to confirm what is correct is to consult the factory records. So people know what changed and when and some think they know, I hope they keep that info to themselves.
Yes occasionally bikes turn up that are 1900 apart, but the factory records say they shouldn't be. I wonder how that happened?:D
 

Simon Dinsdale

VOC Machine Registrar
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
The thing is Jeb do you want to buy the bike as an investment or to ride? The Machine Registrar should have been able to tell you whether the bike is known to have been stolen at some time in the distant past and. assuming that it has not been, then it is a Vincent twin which means that you can rebuild it to any state of tune and any colour you like. .
The numbers on the bike don't appear on the stolen list, but the problem is the numbers don't appear to be Vincent factory stampings so the original identity has been lost. Its currently marked up as a Shadow, but who knows what it left the factory as. Even I cannot work out exactly what it was originally.

You have to ask why have the numbers been altered? Usually its to turn a bike into "matching numbers" or to make a Rapide a Shadow or Lightning etc, but there is the possibility the parts are from a stolen bike and its identity was deliberately destroyed. Again the only person who knows is the culprit who did the alterations.
Simon
 

timetraveller

Well Known and Active Forum User
VOC Member
Any clues from the crankcase mating numbers? As far as I know Brian Phillips' bike has never surfaced either as parts or anything else.
 

Marcus Bowden

VOC Hon. Overseas Representative
VOC Member
My brother Harvey's bike has never been heard of since the Fording Bridge Annual Rally, first Vincent after forty years and had it one week exactly, it certainly killed the atmosphere at the rally and the camp site was clear by 11:00 Sunday, my son turned up from Guildford on his modern bike saying, "I'm glad it was Harvey's and not yours dad " I said "that's not nice" " But dad he's only got six days memory of it you have a life time of memories with yours". ! What would I do if it got stolen !?!?!?!? get out another out from the shed, but it wouldn't be the same .
bananaman
 

Simon Dinsdale

VOC Machine Registrar
VOC Member
VOC Forum Moderator
The Machine registrars database has been set up with a list of stolen bike details sat in the background. I don't even have to think about checking against this list. If I enter a number into the database for a search of details for a bike or parts, the stolen list is automatically checked every single time without me looking at it. If it gets a hit I get a warning.

Owners are quick to inform the VOC when a bike is stolen, but very slow if not at all to inform the VOC if its been recovered so the list has to be treated with care.

Simon
 
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